I am just asking those who believe that illegal aliens do jobs that Americans won't do...let me point out this was a construction job and many Americans will gladly do it.
Don't you reliaze that our unemployment rate would not be so high if we finally did something about the illegal alien issue?????
And let's have this be a bi-partisan discussion. This is one issue BOTH parties are guilty of doing nothing about.
Replies (62)
and then here is something an IL based company did"
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:12 PM
Are you blaming illegals, or the companies hiring them?
-- Posted by FriendO on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:12 PM
FriendO- both, the companies who hire them and the illegals for coming here in the first place. Until we have stricter laws with harsh punsihment this will continue.
I have often heard that illegal aliens are what is bankrupting California. Well I did find this eye opening article: (even though it isn't about CA but our whole nation)
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:16 PM
The articles sum it up pretty well - it's up to the Feds to deport illegals, and their hands are tied with anti-terrorism activities.
The Feds are damned if they do and damned if they don't - imagine what happens when they shift just 1% of their manpower from counter-terrorism to ICE and there is a terror attack. The president would never hear the end of it. Bush oversaw the worst attack in American history and somehow became a folk hero. Obama, in a similar situation, would be termed a traitor and probably be forcibly removed from office by people with pitchforks and torches.
Would you support hiring more enforcement officers? I would, but then that's an expansion of federal powers, which seems to run counter to your ideology.
So again, I'm not really sure how to solve this riddle. I say fine the hell out of the companies hiring them, or put the bosses in prison - but if you are honest you'll agree that business gets what it wants in this country - and the only ones who will get punished (if at all) are scapegoats. The CEOs, or company presidents, board of directors, whoever - they will not see any pain in their bottom line. It's always someone else's fault when they get caught.
-- Posted by FriendO on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:31 PM
KFVS had a story at noon.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 12:36 PM
You have to target the businesses... No real way to keep the illegals out.
Either that or speed up the process to make them legal and paying their fair share.
-- Posted by futile_rant on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:41 PM
Until the goverment is force to address the issue illegals and those who hire them will always be an issue.
As long as LEO's are being told not to enforce laws surrounding immigration it will be an issue.
just look how much heat sheriff Arpio is taking for his enforcmnet of the law when is comes to illgals.
-- Posted by Airborne 95B on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 1:56 PM
While you are in the business of punishing people, how about adding the non-business owners who hire them to cut their grass, or rake their leaves to your lists.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 3:08 PM
Welcome to the strange new world of unreality.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 4:20 PM
I would do whatever it takes to help my family also.
By locking down our borders, not only does the state prevent individuals from getting in, but they also prevent individuals from getting out. This country is enough of a police state without a complete border lockdown.
Speaking of which, I found some articles for everyone's favorite thug, er, folk hero - Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Amerika for your reading pleasure...
Also, are we to assume that the unemployment rate among illegals is 0 percent?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:13 PM
I also would like to see added to that list of puishable people, those homeowners who hire a crew of illegals to come in on the weekend and replace their roofs.
I have more thoughts for the list.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 5:50 PM
I spent some time in Mexico and had a great time. The hotel room had not one but two maids that came twice a day each. The young lady that spoke English could fit in anywhere in America. She had a family and indicated where she lived; next to the place the bus goes really fast so the tourist don't see. When we left I had about $2 worth of pesos and handed to the older lady. I don't know what she said but she dang near hugged me to death. It is only normal to have respect and concern for folks coming to America to better themselves, but to manipulate the process for polical gain is wrong. We need common sense rules and then we need to enforce those rules.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 7:33 PM
Something to think about, America subsidizes food production and through technology we produce tons of the basic stuff which we then unload in other countries, especially Mexico. Because the subsidized price makes it cheaper than what local farmers can grow it for they are forced to cut back on payroll and related expenses. This creates unemployment there and so they have to come here to look for work.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:49 PM
I think its a bit more complicated than that, non-bias.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 9:56 PM
As far as farm subsidies go, why not cut back on a few acres of corn wheat and soy beans by growing hemp. It has many uses that would lessen imports of inferior products used for American manufacturing of what little textiles we produce.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:17 PM
hellanddamnation- you are right
FriendO- you have a very strong point. The only thing about companies is that you could penalize the crud out of them and they will close shop, close the corp, and start a new one. Bad business are like cockroaches.
And I have to admit that the main reason why I am so sensitve to the issue now is because our nation is going broke and we can't afford the burden these illegals throw on our country.
I truly see no answer to this problem in either political party, both have parties have been closing their eyes on the issue and hellanddamnation is right about the reasons why.
Oh, by the way Not Me, I have been on mission trips and have seen people living in cardboard homes. But don't you reliaze that our government cannot support the world? We, as a nation, have the highest debt in history. If we try to support Mexico, 1/2 of Africa, Haiti, and any other nation out there that has a need, then it is only a matter of time before people can drive through our streets and see people living in cardboard homes. Oh, wait a minute, they already do.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Wed, Feb 17, 2010, at 10:43 PM
Make them legal.... boat loads came over from Ireland, Germany, etc in mass migrations...most of you are probably here because of one yet so many have a problem with another one.
Most hispanics I know, legal or not, bust their *** and work harder than most Americans are willing to, I think that is why people feel so much hate.
Had some Mexicans put a floor in for me a few years back because I was to swamped to do it myself. They charged half as much, and did it in half the time as what my neighbors got a month before (same sq ft and all). Competition is good for consumers, good for Americans, bad for lazyies.
-- Posted by futile_rant on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 3:42 AM
futile-rant....you paid illegals 1/2 the price because they do not report the income they earn. They do not pay taxes to our government. But they use our welfare systems and get benifits that our tax dollars pay for. They also do not pay into social security from those wages earned by you.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:24 AM
Our relationship with Mexico and its citizens has always been a bit stormy ever since 1848.
I partly agree with rant. Most all those in the mass migrations of the 19th and early 20th centuries were determined to integrate as quickly as possible to become "Americans." They faced and overcame many prejudices some of which still exist. Or so we like to believe.
The problem is Mexico is right next door and Mexicans are not viewed as integrating well, i.e., "they work here but still want to live in Mexico." It's all bigotry and ignorance, of course.
As within every immigrating group, there will be good ones and bad ones. Welcome the good ones and kick the bad ones out.
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:40 AM
adidas,
I thought that the subject of your thread was about the effect that illegal immigrants are having on the unemployment rate. I understand that threads can go any and every direction, but immigrants receiving goodies is pretty far off of the beaten path.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:55 AM
futile-rant....you paid illegals 1/2 the price because they do not report the income they earn. They do not pay taxes to our government. But they use our welfare systems and get benifits that our tax dollars pay for. They also do not pay into social security from those wages earned by you.
-- Posted by adidas on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:24 AM
Futile proves my point in an earlier post. He goes directly to jail and if they find he is a union member his fine is doubled. Just like speeding in a construction zone.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 9:06 AM
Those crews of illegals that do roofing, will have an American as their boss/supervisor. More often than not, when contracting for the work, the customer deals with the American, not knowing who will actually be doing the work. There is a very good book which explains quite a bit about the problem of illegal immigration, especially from mexico. Granted the book is about California, but it tells it like it is, without the BS. The title of the book is "Mexifornia" by Victor Davis Hanson. Another good read re: uncontrolled immigration is "State of Emergency" by Patrick J. Buchanan.
-- Posted by Mr."H" on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 9:11 AM
For those that want to migrate across the border to fill the temporary needs of produce and fruit and like industry, there should be a way to monitor, tax and regulate the conditions of work. I dont see why this couldn't be done in a competent way. Many private companies would step up to do background checks and certification. States could issue work liscenses after private bonding was met for their return. For those that seek to become citizens, widen the legal door and narrow the qualifications. JMO
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 11:48 AM
Weren't the Native Americans the first ones against "illegal" immigration? Just wondering...
-- Posted by Hugh M Bean on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 1:58 PM
Ok Lumpy- back to the orginal thought of the thread.... futile rant paid illegals when American citizens could have done the job...therfor he took a job away from an American Citizen. Everytime a job is taken by an illegal alien, one that an US citizen could have done, makes another person on unemployment.
Hugh- I am 25% Cherokee...hmmmm perhaps that is why I want the illegals to go home and get off my land!
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 5:54 PM
V'ger,
It's way more complicated than that but in order to find a solution every facet must be examined, not just the political "hot buttons". According to the Constitution, anyone born in America is a citizen, thus anyone born here, including those born to illegals, are citizens and receive the rights and responsibilities. Thus there is a problem when the parents are illegally here but offspring are citizens because many don't want to break apart families, generally speaking Americans aren't heartless. These children then grow up to vote and they would naturally choose to vote for politicians who espouse their views of keeping their parents here.
Then there's NAFTA and all the issues that has created with shipping, production, and services between our borders. Also the crime aspects between Mexico and the U.S. pertaining mostly to the ill-conceived "War on Drugs", a black market of commodities whose functionality is best described by the economic theories of cartels.
The fundamental reason for people from Mexico, the majority of illegals, to come here is to escape from poverty, corruption, and a sense of helplessness. Thus any viable solution must address all of these aspects and empower the Mexican people to achieve a better life by going back, instituting changes, and enforcing those successes.
America's success, albeit a moderate one, of obtaining liberty was due to different cultural influences that had the commonality of escapism from perceived tyranny. It is unlikely, as viewed from the historical record, that any body of relative peoples will be able to achieve this without the intervention of those who have. By this I mean that we, as Americans, should each do all we can to encourage our brothers and sisters in the human race to return to their respective homelands and fight for what they want rather than running away and hoping to make a better life where it is easier to do so. Cowardice never achieved anything worthwhile, just ask the Athenians.
As such, end the immigration raids and the expense of shipping them back unless our enforcement officers provide educational and guidance services first. It does not solve the problem if they will just be back in a couple of months. Nothing is more valuable than knowledge and armed with it they will be able to address their own problems with viable solutions. It wouldn't hurt to arm them before sending them back either.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 6:46 PM
Non-biased, Was part of nafta meant to increase trade with Mexico thus resulting in more jobs in Mexico to lessen immigration? Other than the water that seperates Cuba from the U.S., what is different about our policy towards Cubans that make it to Amnerica. And if we arm and return Mexicans would we be prepared to back them in revolt better than we backed the Cubans we sent back armed? Just wondering.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 7:02 PM
Old J,
NAFTA was meant to free up cost barriers of American companies to ship products to Mexico. The unintended consequence was that because of policy it allowed companies to move production to Mexico and take advantage of less expensive labor and, generally inferior but still within margin, quality without cost barriers to bring product back to the U.S. Free trade of course has to work both ways, no tariffs and such. Regarding Cuba, we imposed an embargo as evidence of our dislike of Castro's revolution and removal of a government that was favorable to our businesses, especially regarding sugar production as Hawaii was increasing costs substantially, and expression of our distrust of the socialistic ideas of Communism. As for Cuban who make it to America's shores, unless they request asylum and show due cause they are sent back, remember Elian Gonzalez in Miami back in the 90's? Concerning backing Mexicans in revolution, it is unlikely we would as revolution often takes far longer than the president's term limits.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 7:57 PM
Mr H- that book would be very relevant. What is happening in California will happen to the whole USA if we do nothing to stop it. Thanks for sharing that.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:13 PM
Non-biased, Thanks for the reply. I feel a bit foolish asking what I think I already knew. A glitch in the processer to harddrive interaction of my intellect sometimes allows for exciting new adventures in learning.
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 8:15 PM
Old J.
There is no reason to feel foolish about that. Everyone experiences memory bus congestion from time to time. Also I should have included Canada in the discussion, especially the issues regarding lumber.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 9:29 PM
Non-bias, Some folks are willing to give up their children to insure them a better life as we seen in Haiti. If that was the choice of parents not sharing legal status in America, I wonder what many would choose. And I know that sounds harsh but is that something to consider?
-- Posted by Old John on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 10:55 PM
Non-bias, you might have mentioned our largest dollar volume of trade with Canada is...importing oil from them.
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Feb 18, 2010, at 11:21 PM
The company I went through was a legit company, actually fairly big name in the area. I had no idea who they were sending to do the job. They just happened to be hispanic. Also they might not have been illegal, I don't know, i am just speculating.
still the equation doesn't add up. they did the same work, in half the time for half the price, and you talk about the 20% taxes they should be paying... sure if they were illegal and didn't pay taxes that might charge more if they were paying taxes, but not double and it wouldn't suddenly cause them to work half as fast.
like I said, to many lazy Americans threatened by hard working people that might make them look bad. I have had bosses/co-workers. previously that told me to get less done because I was making them/other employees look bad... they could have worked as hard, but people like not to.
-- Posted by futile_rant on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 3:02 AM
Guess maybe it was obvious the workers were Mexicans. They weren't infected with American laziness yet. Rant, ya shoulda knowed it.
Was Rant reaasonably expected to grap pencil and paper, climb the ladder to the roof, and interview each workman?
His contract was with a third party whose responsibility was checking out the workmen. Its that simple.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:31 AM
Was Rant reaasonably expected to grap pencil and paper, climb the ladder to the roof, and interview each workman?
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:31 AM
Voyager,
Absolutely. He was guilty of aiding and abetting. In the future everybody is going to have to check all cab drivers papers also. We need to put a lot of people in jail!
It will make the rest of us feel good.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:44 AM
Voyager,
Didn't he have a floor replaced?????
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:44 AM
Well, Wheels, guess there is no hope for us in this world. "We have all erred and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep..."
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:50 AM
Sateva, what are you talking about? What is not winnable? Why?
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:19 AM
Sorry Adidas, but 25% Native American makes you 75% illegal immigrant...
-- Posted by Hugh M Bean on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:35 AM
HMB, now that's a thought to ponder!
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:46 AM
Free Market & globalization include free movement of people... it helps drive prices down. It is a good thing for consumers. Sure it may displace some workers now, but they can get trained to do work they can do better for cheaper. We need to get it over with faster so atleast we can come to a global standard on quality.
-- Posted by futile_rant on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:52 AM
sateva,
Are you Ike in disguise? Can you not recognize tongue in cheek comments?
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:54 AM
Good God, Sateva, you can't possibly be serious. The government profiting off the backs of these poor people. They might as well profit off every ***** in Vegas.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 3:17 PM
I think given the opportunity, nearly all illegals would gladly pay taxes to be able to stay in the country... that really isn't the issue. We have americans who avoid paying taxes, we should kick them out to right?
-- Posted by futile_rant on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 3:56 PM
Hugh- I disagree - my people were here first!
futile- the contractor you hired is a prime example of what needs to happen. We need laws that when a business is found to have illegal immigrants working for them that they should be fined and perhaps thrown in prison for knowingly hiring illegals.
I once asked a contractor to come to my home and give me a quote on a complete overhaul of my bathroom and kitchen. This contractor gave me a quote, bu then told me he could do it for less if I paid in cash under the table. I did not hire him because I knew by that statement he was dishonest with his books. And if he is dishonest with his books how could I trust him to be honest with the materials purchased and the quality? It is contractors like this that hire illegals and do not pay into Social Security and take jobs away from other Americans who would gladly do construction work.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 4:07 PM
Imagine that! Someone not honest in their bookkeeping. What is the world coming to?
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 5:03 PM
I got to know an honor student that worked his rear off anytime he wasn't in school. He told me he was not a citizen but hoped to be someday. He stayed with an aunt and saw his parents when they came to the area to pull melons. I would like to see him given some sort of short path to citizenship. I also became aquainted with another young man that was not a legal resident. He lived with his pregnant legal girl friend in government housing and hosted four buddies in her appartment. None of them worked or went to school. They all had food and medical services provided by the agencies that continue to make expansion and dependance on them first priority. In this case I would like a different result.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 6:52 PM
I have mixed feelings about illegal immigrates. The problem is sorting out the good ones from the bad ones. After the sorting offer the good ones a path to citizenship. The bad ones are shown the door with the admination to not let the doorknow catch them in the glutimus maximus.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:14 PM
What shocked me is the fact that these illegals had $600+ in their pockets when they were caught. They were making $13 per hour.
In my opinion that is steeling money from a citizen who could do the job.
And by the way- how many citizens do you know who can walk around with $600 in their pockets?
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:14 PM
Lets see now. $800?
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:33 PM
You're right Voyager, it was $800 in their pockets.
Must be nice to have $800 cash in your pocket.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 2:42 PM
Not Me,
The only difference between the immigrants that you employ, and the ones that are the subject of this thread is that your employees are paying the state to work here, and have their permission.
Thank you for employing immigrants!
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 3:20 PM
If these "undocumented" workers were paying union dues would there be such a fuss?
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 5:19 PM
Hadn't thought about that aspect, Old John. Good point.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 5:27 PM
While I have sympathy for the Union Workers that are unemployed, how many of them are in Walmart buying Chinese goods as I type this. What about the American workers that are displaced by this action.
I am no expert on immigration, who has the right to work, and a host of othe problems we face.
Just wanted to point out this bit of a double standard.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 6:20 PM
I have never been pro-union. I am a republican you know.
The article stated that they were paid $13 and hour. I know several US citizens who went without employment this year who would have gladly took that job, even if it was just seasonal, so they could provide for their families.
Times are tough, our economy is bad, any American who hires an illegal is only helping drain our society. The illegal immigrants send BILLIONS of US dollars every year to Mexico via Western Union, and yet they don't pay a dime in taxes to our government! And our unemployment is at 10% while they seem to have jobs.
-- Posted by Skeptic1 on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 7:52 PM
I wish I had the spare cash to hire a few immigrants, legal or otherwise. Got some work around here that needs doing.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 9:45 PM
How far would have that $13 per hour gone after the state took their cut?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 7:23 AM
Lumpy, Three city blocks, maybew?
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 9:26 AM
adidass: You didn't have to confess to being a Repub, by the nature of your comments it is very apparant. If it wasn't the threat of a union, employers would be paying less than they do. I once saw a sign that said an employer's definition of minimum wage was "I would pay uou less if I could".
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 10:05 AM
Menu
Here is a recent illegal alien bust, yet they were set free:
http://www.dailyjournalonline.com/articles/2010/02/17/news/doc4b7b8028d83c872575...
I am just asking those who believe that illegal aliens do jobs that Americans won't do...let me point out this was a construction job and many Americans will gladly do it.
Don't you reliaze that our unemployment rate would not be so high if we finally did something about the illegal alien issue?????
And let's have this be a bi-partisan discussion. This is one issue BOTH parties are guilty of doing nothing about.
Replies (62)