Former Vice President Dick Cheney made an unannounced appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference on Thursday, met by a thunderous applause of a surprised and adoring crowd.
Taking the stage with his daughter Liz -- a scheduled speaker at the event -- his appearance spurred immediate shouts from the crowd, urging him to consider a presidential bid. "Cheney 2012!" yelled one man. He flashed a huge smile.
"A welcome like that is almost enough to make me want to run for office again," Cheney replied playfully.
Replies (117)
More from Huffington Post:
"Liz Cheney also came out swinging in her conference address.
"There's no polite way to put this, but that kind of incompetence gets people killed," Cheney said, accusing the Obama administration of missing warnings from the intelligence community that Yemeni terrorists were plotting an attack.
"There is no doubt that the daily intelligence briefings that the president receives contained much more information on the threat from Yemen," she said, without a hint of irony at the failures of the Bush-Cheney years, bemoaning "incompetence, misjudgment and presidential neglect."
Didn't Dick Cheney and George Bush oversee an FBI who took no action when advised the 9-11 hijackers were being taught to fly in the USA?
That kind of incompetence got people killed.
Didn't Dick Cheney and George Bush put the capture of Osama Bin Laden on hold to invade Iraq, a country not associated with 9-11 and no ties with Al Quaeda?
That kind of incompetence got people killed.
Dick Cheney condemns Obama and becomes a hero. I'm no Obama fan, but don't give this guy any credit either.
Larry Bill, Independent Conservative for Congress, Missouri, 8th District
-- Posted by nolimitsonthought on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:20 AM
The left wing hatred toward and fear of Cheney becomes more pronounced and evident. Give it up, folks. He ain't running, he's commenting.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:09 AM
V'ger,
Does one have to be "left-wing" to be afraid of Dick Cheney?
Guess that I am left wing because he terrifies the hell out of me.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:46 AM
Lumpy, the right wing sure doesn't appear to be afraid of him. Don't think Centerists really give it much thought one way or the other. Guess that leaves the left wing. Where you fit in, if at all, is up to you.
What about him terrifies you so? On second thought, I'm not sure I want or need to know.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 9:57 AM
Ike,
You need to expand your vocabulary a mite. You used the word fail 3 times in 1 1/2 lines.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:00 AM
V'ger,
I fear Dick Cheney because he is a lying, cruel, mentally disturbed lunatic war criminal that possesses a limitless blood lust, and a sizable influence on the largest and most dangerous group of armed men in the history of the world.
Can there be any doubt as to why "right wingers" embrace Dick Cheney so enthuastically?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:18 AM
Lumpy, More importantly, do the enemies of our nation fear him? Its a safe bet Al Qaida (CQ?) agrees with your assessment...fortunately.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:56 AM
V'ger,
I don't think that "fear" would be the best word to describe the feelings that al Queda have for Dick. "Grateful" may better descibe those affections due to the fact that since the "War on Terror" was initiated almost all of it's victims have been innocent of any association with al Queda, and as a result that organization has realized a recruiting boom.
So, we have two parties vested in Cheney, both of whom see the creep as being beneficial to their interests: al Queda and "right wingers".
Ben Franklin's wisdom and vision never cease to amaze me. It was almost like he had the early 21st Century United States, Dick Cheney, and the war mongering neocons that cheer him on in mind when he penned, "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.".
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:26 AM
Voyager I am not a left winger and yes I do fear Dick Cheney too. He is still a powerful man who knows where the skeletons are hidden both figuratively and literally.
It is normal for one to defend a political person in whom one has invested their time and allegiance.It is easy to over look their faults or dismiss them as minimal partisan attacks. I wouldn't use him as a martyr to your cause. Sooner or later you are going to come to the conclusion that he is a wicked evil man and has deceived you just like he did his constituents in Wyoming when he ran for re-election to Congress.
Watch at the end of this video how he smirks with disdain and devious satisfaction on his deceit about being the former director of the secretive Council on Foreign Relations. And learn more about the CFR if you haven't already. This video alone should tell you this man's dark character. David Rockefeller speaks briefly first then Cheney. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbnpN07J_zg
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:31 AM
Here is another good short video about Cheney by Alex Jones. Alex proves in this video how Cheney lied about the shotgun shooting of Harry Weddington. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A21W3gsfyM0
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:39 AM
Ike, sorry, but it is not up to me to refute anything you posted. Its up to you to conclusively prove your assertions. Cheney is quite capable at defending himself and his positions. I don't choose to try.
Lumpy, in your opinion "fear" is not the best word to use. Do you have some inside information the rest of us poor mortals do not possess?
Both of you are relying upon your OPINIONS.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:43 AM
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:51 AM
Ike,
Incorrect. Now that is an improvemet. You have learned a new word for failure. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:57 AM
I want to go on record Voyager that I don't think you are an idiot for what that's worth. I have been in agreement with many of your comments in the past. I just disagree with your assessment and defense of Cheney.
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 12:05 PM
As I have stated, it is not my purpose to "defend" Cheney. He is quite capable of doing that himself. Other than that, I'm not sure if I have a position on Cheney. Suppose we need to consult Ike to tell me what my position is. It may come as great news to me. On second thought, lets rely on Lumpy. He's more intelligent than Ike.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 12:45 PM
I agree with you and Lumpy, James. I was disgusted but not surprised at the ovation the tyrant Cheney got at CPAC. The Republican Party is now the party of war and more war. They relish being lied to. However, with Obama and his obedient followers,the Democrat Party is no different.
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 12:51 PM
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 12:57 PM
V'ger,
I am about as interested in telling you how you should think as Dick Cheney is in protecting this country.
I have to disagree with you regarding Ike's intellect. You both seem like pretty reasonable fellas to me, and I value our disagreements more than the common ground we share because it is usually a learning experience for me.
I consider individuals that get duped into phony patriotism, and the fervent nationalistic blood lust via the state's endless propaganda campaigns, and the willing lapdog mouthpieces in the old media to be victims of maniacs like Cheney also. I grieve for our soldiers, innocents, the "enemy", and any and all casualties of perpetual peace through perpetual war equally.
I know that I wind myself up sometimes, especially when the subject is war. I am passionately anti-war. I believe war to be inherently evil, and the root cause of all the world's problems including this country's current financial woes. War is the ultimate waste. Just like InfoWarrior, it truly sickens me to see a fiend like Cheney receive any kind of accolade. I honestly believe that the man is evil, and I don't throw that word around lightly. The fact that this country elected him to a position of power TWICE is another one of the primary reasons that I believe that government in any form is incapable of producing anything good.
I am a firm disciple of the non-aggression axiom that is the cornerstone of the philosophy of libertarianism. No individual, or body of individuals should ever initiate or threaten violence against another individual or body of individuals, or their property. When, and if this non-aggression truism is broken, the offender should be locked up, not praised.
Dick Cheney has earned chains; not cheers!
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 4:11 PM
Dick Cheney has earned chains; not cheers!
Now, add the names of every congressman, senator, VP, and Pres. over the last couple of 3 decades, and I'll agree with that statement!!!
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 4:40 PM
As a somewhat Objectivist, I can appreciate your non-aggression views. The problem is, Lumpy, this is not a universally held axiom. It is not the pure of Randian reason. We have all too many looter, moocher, and mystics who view us as the sacrificial lamb. When their aggression is turned on me, they may expect for them a very unpleasant reaction.
I wish the world could be as you see it. Unfortunately and regretably, that is not always the case. Meet force with force in self defense.
As to Ike, he causes much of the reaction himself. Maybe when he gets a little more age and experience on him, he will become more reasonable.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 4:50 PM
V'ger,
I like Ike. And I like you too.
I have never interpreted Rand, or libertarianism (not the same as objectivism, I know) as being anyway against self defense.
Ayn Rand was one of my first exposures to the non-aggression axiom, and I still find some of her writings to be challenging.
However, I do not equate interventionalism and / or nation building with national security.
Let's go back to square one. Why were we attacked on Sept. 11, 2001?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 5:04 PM
Suppose you may be right. Why 9/11? We may never know some of the deep dark secrets of that unfortunate episode. In the sequence of events 9/11 preceded the war in Iraq which was preceded by Afganistan, which was preceded by...Saints Preserve us...what?
Maybe it goes back to the First Crusades for all I know.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 5:17 PM
voyager got spanked - ha!
-- Posted by concerned4all on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 6:02 PM
Sure Not Me, in the sense that he takes care of himself at taxpayer expense. I think he is one of the biggest blood suckers out there.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 6:26 PM
Cheney is Mondo King Leer Leach the Impecable! Jesus ***** *******, WTF!!! Did somebody suggest otherwise?
-- Posted by Lumpy on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 6:42 PM
Not Me, I wasn't even considering his "job" as vp, I was thinking how much he cost us, because of his connection to Haliburton. And I don't think anyone is scared he'd run, in fact, I wish he would. I don't think there is a chance he'd win. Most just fear his lies and dishonesty and his attitude about our laws...they don't apply to him.
So you know Ike?
-- Posted by concerned4all on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 8:16 PM
"voyager got spanked - ha!"-- Posted by Richardd on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 6:02 PM
Sparked? By whom. The difference between you and Lumpy is one is able to have an intelligent conversation with him and respectfully disagree. You, sir, simply are not in his league.
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 10:26 PM
And you sir, already proved you are not in the league. BTW sir, I wasn't trying to have a conversation with you, I just wanted to point out "you got spanked" and by just about everyone - ha! Let's see there was Lumpy, InfoWarrior, Ike, sateva, Rick and James.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Fri, Feb 19, 2010, at 11:14 PM
there is no defense of cheney. he is what he is. chicken poop draft dodger,like bush.
-- Posted by workingdude on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 8:26 AM
there is no defense of cheney. he is what he is. chicken poop draft dodger,like bush.
-- Posted by workingdude on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 8:27 AM
Richardd, too bad about the absence of conversation. You would have learned something. Pity.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 AM
From you - I think not. I've seen plenty of your rants...nothing original, but I just couldn't let your crap go without a response this time. And you did get spanked and I found humor in that, because EVERYBODY called you on it this time. Pity back at cha bud.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 12:39 PM
Sorry you didn't learn anything.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:01 PM
sateva,
I've never been a big fan of Reagan. However, I have been finding out some things about him that have changed my opinion about him somewhat.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:18 PM
Lumpy, this Is getting really interesting now! Please share your insights. From you we all can learn. Well, most of us with certain notable exceptions.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 1:31 PM
V'ger,
Reagan was actually quite dovish in his position on nuclear weapons.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 2:03 PM
Good reason some of us Independents do not want to register as Republicans. The sad fact is we must all too often have to vote Republican. Not to do so it the same as a vote for Democrats.
I don't hold out much hope for a Third Party. The game is rigged against them.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 2:05 PM
V'ger,
Even if third party and independent candidates do not win the election, their presense on the ballot sends a strong message to the Welfare / Warfare Party. Look at what the Ron Paul campaign has accomplished. Would legislation like HR 1207 been possible without Ron Paul making the splash that he did in '08? He has proposed bills to audit the Fed ever since he was elected to Congress. Also, without presidential candidate Ron Paul the tea party movement would have never happened.
Ron Paul was the first Republican that I have ever voted for, and the only candidate that I cast a vote for in '08 that I feel positive about.
Voting third party and independent is not a wasted vote. Yes, the game is rigged against them, but the one and only thing that these politicians pay attention to is votes.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 2:52 PM
The voting game is rigged and has been for a long time. Now with the electronic Diebold voting machines it is especially easy to hack the votes as was proven in an HBO special a couple of years ago. Even so, like Lumpy says, voting for third parties does send a message that we do not like the false choice of Republican vs Democrat and that we are watching them. I believe with all my heart and soul that Ron Paul did win the New Hampshire primary but was cheated by voter fraud. He was too much of a gentleman to contest the primary. Bev Harris from black box voting.org made this video that shows the possiblity of chain of command fraud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQEQ7qHvgM I have lots of eveidence that Paul was robbed in New Hampshire.
Ronald Regan would have been a great president had they not gotten to him in the assassination attempt. I have always believed that Reagan was supposed to have been killed so that daddy Bush could have been president from the git go. At the time, I could not believe Bush was chosen by Regan to be VP. To me, Bush was chosen by the elite to be VP because in 1980 he never could have been elected on his own. Before the shooting, Reagan and Bush were far apart in political beliefs. But Reagan changed drastically after he was shot. He was not the same man after the shooting and did the bidding of the Eastern elite.
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 6:15 PM
Not Me. The HBO special on hacking voting machines was non-partisan. It just pointed out how easily electronic voting machines can be hacked. I was shocked that HBO even aired it at all. Are you in favor of voter fraud? If not I don't understand your problem with exposing fraud no matter what channel it was on.
-- Posted by Thought Criminal on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 7:50 PM
NOTHING on television is non-partisan. The same goes for the print media.
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 8:25 PM
Being a friend of Dick Cheney is a dangerous job he might shoot you in the face with birdshot. haha
-- Posted by semo2014 on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 8:43 PM
Now that isn't a very nice thing to do, Bball!
-- Posted by voyager on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 9:40 PM
I know but it is so true, but in all seriousness Cheney might want to run for pres, Obama already has a bad reputation so the repub candidate could run away.
-- Posted by semo2014 on Sat, Feb 20, 2010, at 10:47 PM
Only Democrats are capable of voter fraud. Everybody knows that.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 7:16 AM
Ike, go gentle on poor old Cheney. He's old and retired now. Deserves a rest. I know for you it's difficult, but you should speak respectful of your elders.
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 11:33 AM
That is BS. I agree he deserves a rest, if he'd just give it one. He needs to crawl back into that deep, dark place where cowards and creeps go to hang out. What a freak. Oh, and he needs to take his freaky "Little Lizzy Mouthpiece" with him.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 12:10 PM
We have seen more of the draft dodger in the last year than we saw of him the previous 8 years. I guess he doesn't have a govt bunker to hide in now. Thanks a lot...Dick.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 3:34 PM
I'm still thinking Ron Paul for 2012! That is if the world is still here. And if Aliens haven't saved us yet.
On a 2012 side note. "If I wake up December 11 2012 and there are five huge alien Ships in the air and they say get on or die. I think I'm jumping on which ever ship George Clinton gets on."
OK back to you regularly scheduled Cheney......
-- Posted by timexx on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 3:43 PM
Provided the ship is headed to warmer climes, say Jamiaca.
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 3:49 PM
Dont really matter, as long as the PFunk Allstars are there baby!! Jump on that mother ship! YHAAA
-- Posted by timexx on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 3:51 PM
Not Me, I remember my very proper English Grandmother who once said of a particularly obnoxious and opinionated young man who was visiting in town:
"Of his own doing he has rendered himself unable to be received."
A polite way of saying it was his own fault he was not welcome and would not be acknowledged further.
-- Posted by voyager on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 8:54 PM
Wonder what a "proper" granny would say about this quote, "At least he had the backbone to tell Patrick Leahy "Go **** Yourself".
-- Posted by concerned4all on Sun, Feb 21, 2010, at 11:30 PM
Not Me, Grandmothers do seem to have rather effective ways of instilling and enforcing proper manners and good breeding. Some of us were fortunate enough to receive such early training which stood us in good stead in our adult years. Others, regretably, were no so fortunate.
My Grandmother would have ignored the rudeness as would have been the person who commited the rudeness. That person would NEVER have had the opportunity ever to do so again.
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:02 AM
I take it, your granny would have ignored Cheney then. Good woman.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:10 AM
Voyager,
This nonsense on these threads is wearing a little thin. I would like to ask you a question on a different subject, We discussed your avatar some months ago and I started thinking about it again the other day. I believe you said it is a picture of a casting you made. Am i close? If so it looks like a very time consuming job. I really like the looks of it and would like to know more.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:11 AM
Well it was a nice diversion for a snowed-in weekend when I didn't feel like doing chores. Fun to use mischief and make the Republicans squirm (c'mon I know you are all independent thinkers - wink). Seems as most of the old posters are gone and have been replaced with a bunch of old men who just agree with one another. Saw feisty Melange for a bit, but no Jerry, Babe, SWBG, JM or Just for Fun. Too bad, they were a hoot with some real meat. I'll leave it to ya guys and am looking forward to some original thought you claim to have and not just a repeat of FOX, Rush et al. I'll keep an eye in here from time to time, but perhaps the old group just drew weary of the newbie's limited range (our way or no way). I find humor in how predictable they are, but couldn't take it on a regular basis
-- Posted by concerned4all on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 7:19 AM
Hmmmm.
The dying swan act.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 9:13 AM
Thank you for asking, Wheels. Its a hobby which grew out of an interest in metal working. I wanted to take some dents out some old copper decorative accessories, if you can believe it.
The process begins with a blank paper. A design is created, drawn, and and perfected. I scan the design to my hard drive and print out a sized paper pattern. Sometimes, as with the unicorn, the pattern consists of multiple parts (like a set of architect's blueprints). Back in 1975 before computers all drawings were done laborously by hand. Today the computer assists by saving time and effort. Once the pattern process is completed, they are copied and store in a pattern book on the computer.
Once the patterns for a particular piece are printed, they are glued to sheet metal (14, 16 or 18 gauge pewter) and cut out using a jeweler's saw. Using jewelers files, abrasives, and flexi shaft machine, parts are shaped and soldered together. When assembly is completed, finishing begins ending with tripoli and then red rouge employing a buffing machine. A final cleaning is done to remove any compounds from the piece's surface. Voila, a master model!
Reproduction of the model begins with a 9" round two-part virgin rubber mold. The model is placed between the two parts, and vulcanized in a special vulcanizer machine. Upon completion, the vulcanized mold is split, the pattern model removed, and using special knives, the sprue and vent lines are cut into the rubber.
Next the mold is placed in a special centrifugal casting machine, molten metal (somewhere around 500 degrees) ladled from the melting furnace, and poured into the spinning mold. Several castings are made in turn. Upon cooling, the piece is removed from the mold, sprue and vent lines removed, and the piece finished. Voila! These pieces become the production models.
From this point the process is much the same repetition. A production mold is made using the newly minted production models, usually 4 to 6 pieces to a mold.
Once the production mold is prepared, you can commence volume production. That's essentially it and is how the unicorn was made. And naturally there a many details and processes learned by trial and error over the years.
If you want to see pictures and jewelry making supplies, google jewelery making suppliers. Two that come to mind Allcraft Tool and Concenti
Have I bored the Hell out of you? Sorry if I did.
Of course, Wheels, anything you want to know or have clarified, please, don't hesitate to ask. I do enjoy sharing and talking about it!
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 9:21 AM
Voyager,
Thanks for taking the trouble to lay out what is a very understandable explanation of the process. It was easy to get a mental picture.
You did not learn all of that overnight obviously. And I was not bored at all.
When I was just out of high school, a "couple" of years ago, I worked in a foundry a couple of months. Not nearly so refined as what you are doing but I could follow the mold making, pouring, & the finished product.
And I believe you said you did this strictly for a hobby.
I would bet pouring that 500 degree metal into a spinning mold is "interesting". Would not do to spill even a little of that inside your glove.
A very interesting hobby. Are you still actively doing this?
I will look at those sites you recommended to get a better feel. I will not be trying to copy your hobby as I am too involved in too many projects myself to take on even one more. But I find it interesting to learn what some of the other old "farts' who are retired do to keep them off the street corners. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 10:30 AM
dick cheney is a very smart man. rumor has it he can actually speak without a teleprompter unlike the community organizer. no matter what you think about him he wouldn't bow to a japanese emperor, the queen, the king of saudi arabia, the gardner, the maid and on and on. he wouldn't confiscate private enterprises like car companies and health care. he wouldn't bring enemy combatants onto US soil for civilian trials, he wouldn't have raised the debt ceiling to 13 trillion, he wouldn't send white doves to iran offering the olive brance so they can continue unfettered development of nuclear weapons which they will use. dick cheney is great. acorn shill very bad.
-- Posted by wonderfulneighbors on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 11:11 AM
BTW, did you know until his Halliburton gig, Dick had NEVER held a job in the private sector?
-- Posted by Ike on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 11:17 AM
Ike,
And Obama has??
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 11:36 AM
Not Me: How fascinating. He worked for some of the biggest crooks in the country. I bet it wasn't in the fields, was it? It was some desk job somewhere near a bunker.
-- Posted by howdydoody on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:03 PM
wonderfulneighbors,
The debt ceiling was raised 7 times during the Bush administration: 5 times between 2001 and 2006. As VP, Cheney presided over each Senate vote.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:21 PM
Wheels, Ike can try the patience of the Saints. But he tries mightily to state and defend his position, as wrong as we think he may be. That we can respect.
There are others, however, who just want to argue for the sake of argument, are intolerant,and are downright obnoxious bigots. Respect is not due them, and its best to ignore them. "To argue with a fool makes two fools."
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:23 PM
Wheels, thanks for your response. I'm pleased to learn you worked in a foundry and have avery good understanding of the process.
Really, you're quite right. There isn't all that much difference except in scale.
What comes next? Could we speak of that later?
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:28 PM
James,
My question was to find out why Ike thought it was important that Cheney had only held one private sector job before becoming VP. I really don't know or care how many jobs he had. He is history anyway.
Ike doesn't seem to think it was important that the man who is now President had any practical private sector experience.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:29 PM
Voyager,
Only curiosity would be how many hours from the decision to build something, go through all the steps and come up with a finished product. No hurry and probably this is not a real good place to discuss it anyway. I guess I wanted to know if your hobby costs you as many unpaid hours as mine does. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 12:32 PM
Oddly Wheels, the creative designing and pattern making process requires of me more hours than anything else. Sometimes, its an off and on process over several weeks.
Once the pattern is glued to thw sheet metal to final product may be a day. It's really hard to say if you have several projects in the works at the same time at different stages of development.
For example, I worked on the unicorn design over several weeks. The crafting of the master model took longer than most because of the number of pieces in tghe design. In another case, a simple cross took less than and hour to design and make a pattern. Maybe a hour to cut out and finish as a master model. Sevewral pieces can be involved in making rubber molds.
Where it all comes together is the final production mold for mass production. Casting time per one one 2.5 minutes or somewhere between 12 to 24 spins per hour. If 4 or 5 pieces are cast per mold spin 48 to 96 pieces per hour. Then the clean up and finisdhing time...cutting sprue and vent lines, filing down and buffing out imperfections.
Some shops have several centrifical casting machines going at once.Its possible to turn out per machine maybe 800 pieces per day. Add on cleanup time and finishing. Depends on the skill and ability of a bench man. Consider each piece $10-$12.50 each X 800 per day production or $800 to $10,000 GROSS per day minus cleanup, polishing, handling, and shipping cost. Of course, minus other overhead...materials and supplies (pewter ingots, buffs, files, blades and numerous other incidentals), labor, rent. Labor is the big expense, but time is the killer. You simply have to be ever vigilant watching every expense.
Years ago an old gentleman in Providence, RI (a major jewelry manufacturing center) told me you could throw away more money out the back door with a teaspoon than you can shovel in the front door with a coal scoop.
But I ain't telling you nothing about management and cost accounting that you don't already know.
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 2:53 PM
James,
I knew of the Haliburton connection, but did not know if he ever did anything else.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 3:58 PM
Voyager,
Did you do this professionally during your working years. You seem to know an awful lot about it to just do it for a hobby. I like the creative part of it. Once the design work was completed and you turned out the first finished product, then it would get to be routine and time to get on with the next design it would seem. I thought time would be the killer and obviously more of it in a complex design vs somehting simple like a cross.
I'm impressed.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 4:06 PM
Wheels, I was in the wholesale imported decorative business from all over the world. Sometimes a shipment would arrive with dented or damaged items. Some were sold as is at discount. Other could be repaired or touched up. I wanted to know how to remove dents from copper items like vases and jugs with too narrow openings to get a hammer inside. I developed a "twanger" on as steel rod and a polished round ball on the end. Put the twanger in a vice and use a hammer to vibrate it. Voila? Dent gone. Other things used to repair or polish followed.
In shipments from overseas, suppliers would send numerous samples from which occasionally we would select an item or so for the line. Frequently, we received jewelry samples.
At the end of the year preparing for inventory time, we would sell off a lot of the accumulated, damaged or seconds items. We noticed we rarely had any leftover jewelry. Voile! A light goes on. Did I tell you I was of Scottish heritage?
As a small sideline I handmade some jewelry pieces. To my utter surprise they flew out the door. Again, a light goes on, and a question "If I could produce more..." How to mass produce, reduce the transportation and importation costs to speed up delivery. More profit, until figuring out domestic costs. Took some of the bloom off the blossom of instant riches.
Bottom line: Ordered machines and supplies, then started to learn over time things I never realized I needed to know.
Wheels, time was the big factor and the biggest enemy. It all comes down to time management (and physical and mental energy).
"I burn my candle at both ends, It will not last the night. But, Ah my friends and Oh my foes, it gives such a lovely light." There came an inevitable point I had burnout. Closed everything out and did something else until retirement. Now I've got a case of retirement boredom. Looked over some of the pieces I saved and began thinking what if I could concentrate just on jewelry and exclude everything else. Production methods and machinery hasn't changed much, but sales and distribution have considerably. Sales by internet. No more traveling or trade shows. Still, I haven't made up my mind. The creative part is fun, but the inevitable business part is a hassle I don't want or need. The two things are intertwines.
Here I go again. Its like you asking me for the time and I tell you how to make a clock. And I'm the guy who lectures others on brevity!
-- Posted by voyager on Mon, Feb 22, 2010, at 5:41 PM
Voyager,
Thanks for all of the information. I feel like I may have come off as being a little on the prying side. You had an interesting life.
I like some of the ways you overcame "impossible" problems. Just a little of that Yankee ingenuity that made America what it once was.
Sounds like you gained a lot of your knowledge in the College of hard knocks.
You mention time as a big factor and the biggest enemy.
I know in my own business, skilled labor was your scarcest commodity. You could buy all of the mass produced product to install you wanted. The labor to install it was the hardest thing to find. And when you found a good employee you treated him fairly and tried to keep him/her if you were smart.
Salesmen in our business were the hardest to make understand that labor intensive jobs had to be bid differently than equipment intensive jobs if you were going to succeed and be around to take care of your customers.
I'm happy to have the clock, I already knew what time it was. :-)
We could waste an hour or two bs ing and telling war stories I would bet.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 12:36 AM
Wheels, You are not prying. Not meaning to put anyone else down, but you are one of the very few who would understand what I was rambling on about. mostly due to your your experience, interests, and curiosity.
Know what you mean about skilled workers. Had a fellow I trained for bench work removing sprue and vents lines, filing and polishing/finishing. He remarked that I was too particular about the finishing given the back of items. "The customer would never know the difference." When I heard this, my response was and still is, "yes, but I would know."
The old adage "A workman must be worthy of his hire" is applicable to everything one does.
Sounds to me like you too have met life head on and learned valuable lessons. I will admit I have had advantages and oppportunities that other may not have head. But what I value most are the things I have learned from experience and even trial and error.
And I really enjoy Bullfrog Singing and telling war stories. Storytelling is a fine old Southern tradition to be treasured!
Anytime, Wheels!
-- Posted by voyager on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 10:45 AM
I will admit I have had advantages and oppportunities that other may not have head. But what I value most are the things I have learned from experience and even trial and error.
-- Posted by voyager on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 10:45 AM
You very well may have had advantages come your way, but it was up to you to recognize them and take advantage.
What somebody once said in a meeting I attended, and Lordy I don't remember his name, but it goes "You Pack Your Own Chute!"
I have tried to to face life headon, but found a time or two, that light at the end of the tunnel was indeed the headlamp on an oncoming freight train. :-)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:38 PM
Wheels, I hope the train headlamp wasn't a reference to a naked cowboy found run over by a train near the Indian cave of pleasure promised.
[Friday Funny a while back]
If less people had others packing the chute for them, we may all be better for it.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:51 PM
Old John,
Whoo Whooooooooo!. I wasn't thinking of that, but you my have pinpointed my problem. :-)
Yes, I think you are correct on the chute thing.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 6:58 PM
Wheels, I see these stories about the schools sending students home with food so they don't starve over thee weekend. Then I see that the food bank folks are donating that food to the schools. Then I see the school is having a food drive for the local food bank. All in the name of teaching children to give back. I sure get confused. When I was about 6, someone had a flat on a trailer they had loaded with trash to take off and left it just down the road from us. My sister and I checked it out and told Dad there was a bunch of cans of food on the it. We ate good for weeks and Dad was against any kind of government "We just want to hep" programs from then on. Maybe that is where I get my warped opinions on warefare.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 7:48 PM
Old John,
Let me see if I understand this:
1.) The school sends home food with children to keep them from starving.
2.) This food is furnished by food banks.
3.) The school is collecting food for the food bank.
I I turn this around:
1.) The school collects food from students and gives it to the food bank.
2.) The food bank gives the food back to the school.
3. ) The school gives the food back to students, at least some of them.
My guess is there really was no need for the food bank. What were the transportation costs on this food I wonder? This program looks like it was designed by Congress as a full employment bill.
You and your sister appear to have cut out the middle man (food bank)
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 8:46 PM
Wiff you are back as you! :-)
Wiff, since I have never had taxing authority, it came kind of natural.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:10 PM
Wheels, As I posted on another thread, sooner or later maybe someone will use that dry milk, peanut butter and rice. At the rate it is progressing, the state and do gooders can just pick up the children at the hospital and rear them through school and right into job placement. Then the parents can vote for the folks that send them a check for other than child rearing expenses.
Maybe I should I of asked if you were expecting a cold front to come your way instead of showing my cold hearted side.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:14 PM
Meanwhile, back to the subject of this thread. We have learned Cheney has had another heart attack and sent to hospital. It was his fifth heart attack, as I think I understood it.
It begs the question, why all the static on the Left, the bitterness and hatred. There is no chance Cheney would even run for POTUS. Even if he went so far as to win the presidency, I would not take any bets that he would live to finish the first term, let alone to complete one year.
So doesn't it make this thread a moot question? So why all the smoke. He really must have been very effective as VP to stir up such hatred.
Old adage: Know a man by his enemies, not his friends.
About the same time Clinton goes to the hospital with heart concerns. With the exception of media slobbering over the story, I don't recall a ripple caussed by the Right wingers. Maybe a ho hum, and hopes he would well soon. Any comments? Comparisons?
-- Posted by voyager on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:16 PM
Just a minute Voyager, I need to respond to Old John,
Old John,
Guess I missed the other thread. Will check it out.
Warm yesterday, Not so warm today. May be even colder tomorrow. My only consolation it is warmer here than there.
Now I will try to find who put a chill on your heart.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM
Voyager,
It appears Palin just wasn't a big enough target for them to vent their frustration on, and Cheney was handy.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:31 PM
Voyager, I can only agree and hope reading this thread didn't stress Mr cheney into his woes.
I have always seen him as well spoken and sensable in his comments. I can't see any evil reason in the disagreements he has with the current administration.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:36 PM
We really don't need to defend Cheney. He's more than able to defend himself most splendidly which is the reason the radical Left hates him so. Why they should exercise themselves and get their panties is such a wad seems silly. He's not running for anything and never will again. Wish he could.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 12:13 AM
I have always seen him as well spoken and sensable in his comments. I can't see any evil reason in the disagreements he has with the current administration.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, Feb 23, 2010, at 9:36 PM
The greatest enemy to the liberal left bleeding heart Democrats is the voice of reason. They will demonize and attempt to assassinate the character of any adult with strong common sense and intelligent commitment. Cheney is a great American, a great leader and the voice that needs to be heard at this time. Bless you Mr. Cheney, take care of yourself, we need you now more than ever.
-- Posted by blogbudsman on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:34 AM
James, as much your posts are thought provoking and thereby appreciated, sometimes you are as blind as a bat. There's change, and then there's change .
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:37 AM
James, what voyage meant to say was, YOU don't agree with ME, so YOU are blind.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:59 AM
I just didn't appreciate his knock on you.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 12:56 PM
What voyager meant is what change is being discussed? Obama change to the left, Ron Paul change to the Right, Republican change to the middle Center (not too much of any change but just a little bit).
Do not assume I endorse Bush. Do not assume I endorse Cheney.
And duhhh, Your assistance interpreting my remarks is unnecessary. I'm far better qualified to do so.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 2:38 PM
Hey voyager, its really more a comment on you, rather than an interpretation. And I've said this before, I'll comment on anything I please on a public forum.
Ugh - you can say what you want, but you certainly continue to defend Cheney's actions, comments and lies. So I read them the same.
Also, the Republican is always right, even when he's not, but I'm not endorsing him. Laughing. Do you know how "blind" you seem...probably not.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 4:57 PM
V'ger,
I agree. Cheney is not running for anything. He is not in power anymore.
When he speaks, which is a lot, the subject is always the same. War, war, and more war. Wars we are fighting now. Wars we are officially / unoffically fighting now. Wars we will be fighting in the not so distant future. Wars coming soon to a foreign country near somebody else (but not so near me).
Like another ex-VP - Al Gore, Cheney is a one trick pony.
One drums up support at each and every given opportunity to prevent an imaginary global catastrophe of biblical porportions by throwing a lot of our money and resources at "solutions" that will benefit him and his friends financially and politically.
The other drums up support at each and every given opportunity to prevent an imaginary global catastrophe of biblical porportions by throwing a lot of our money and resources at "solutions" that will benefit him and his friends financially and politically.
I will leave it up to you to guess who is who.
The only thing that I wish both of these hacks would "run for" is the hills. Note: not James' hills / my ancestral stomping grounds.
Where the **** is Dan Qualye when you need him?
blogbudsman,
I agree. Dick is the quintessential, great American.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 5:50 PM
He will save the world...long live the Dick!
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:13 PM
Well, Lumpy, you've covered the ground pretty well...now if only I can figure out what you mean. I may need to get back to you on that.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:29 PM
duhhh, you sound strangely familiar somehow like in an echo chamber. Do you believe in reincarnation?
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM
Ya mean like this, "the Republican is always right, even when he's not, but I'm not endorsing him".
Voyager, you twist so much that you don't even know what you've said.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:45 PM
duhhh, your words, your meaning, not mine.
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:52 PM
lumpy, Voyager means well, he just can't pull it off.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:56 PM
duhhhhh,
I think that Mr. Wiffle and V'ger are righteous dudes! I have faith that they will eventually drop the whole Republican Good / Democrat Bad thing. More than anything, this country needs hard working, caring, freedom loving indivduals that refuse to sell their souls to the corporate welfare / warfare house of cards.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:26 PM
Wow - can't see that happening (W & v dropping the Rep good/ Dems bad), but I agree on the later.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:33 PM
I'm tired of explaining to those who either can't or won't understand what I say. Those who do understand need no further explanation. Those who don't or won't are beyond rational discourse.
So why bother?
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:43 PM
Voyager, Just for the fun of it!
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:50 PM
Lets' see, those that do, would be Wiff(Not Me), Wheels, OJ and then those that don't would be, Lumpy, me, blind James, sateva, howdydoody, Ike.
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:52 PM
What's with all the confrontational attitudes and insults? Dick Cheney is clearly not stupid, meaning having a less than normal intelligence, as is evidenced by his life. He is however ignorant, meaning lacking in a particular knowledge or experience, of various subjects such as Middle Eastern Muslim psychology and it's differences regarding American ideas of liberty. Every one of us who post here are ignorant of various subjects, not one of us knows everything about every subject. His evilness is a philosophical matter that is ripe with argumentative assertions of his intentions, of which none of us are privy. If the intention of the aforementioned behavior is nothing more than certain poster's attempts to identify who has the "biggest one", I would suggest you go ahead and drop your trousers now, I'll be along in a little while to really shock you.
-- Posted by non-biasedphilosopher on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 9:08 PM
Non-biased, You could have said those fussing are just trying to sort out the biggest fusser! Point well taken. As far as my attitude, I thought it would be a learning experience to put myself in the know it all seat just for a short time to see if it yields the satisfacion some seem to strive for.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 9:27 PM
Lets' see, those that do, would be Wiff(Not Me), Wheels, OJ and then those that don't would be, Lumpy, me, blind James, sateva, howdydoody, Ike.
-- Posted by duhhhhh on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:52 PM
I think I would like to see a little clearer explanation of the labeling. Two types only huh?
Your name fits you well!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 10:21 PM
duhhh, I repeat: "you sound strangely familiar somehow like in an echo chamber. Do you believe in reincarnation?"-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 7:36 PM
Are you going to answer the question?
-- Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 10:42 PM
I think I would like to see a little clearer explanation of the labeling. Two types only huh?
Your name fits you well! Thank you, Wheels!
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 10:21
Well Wheels, you'll have to ask voyager, because the "two types" comes from what was - Posted by voyager on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 8:43 PM
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:07 PM
voyager - why bother? You've already declared that I'm of the type that is beyond rational discourse (I might be blind too - make that blind as a bat).
-- Posted by concerned4all on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:13 PM
Well Duhhh,
I don't think I fit either category. In 72 years I don't think I have yet met a Man or Woman who I fully understood in all instances. And even the goofier ones I have known have a lucid moment now and then.
When you have lived with one person for over 52 years, you would think you would have it down pat. And damned if they don't come up with something totally foreign to you. And you have to work on that one for a while.
Nope... don't think it as simple as two types.
-- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Wed, Feb 24, 2010, at 11:30 PM
concerned4all, OK, whatever churns your butter, presses your wine, or makes your cider. Fine with me. How about as dumb as a waterlogged stump, or as smart as an aligator sliding down a ski slope. Anything to assist in filling the intellectual void out there.
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:07 AM
Good grief. Come on over, we've having elkburger tonight. Now that oughta irk you ilk.
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 1:46 PM
When I think of private industry, the oil business is usually not the first example that comes to my mind.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 5:06 PM
Ok, I'll bite, Lumpy. What is the first example that comes to your mind?
-- Posted by voyager on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 7:41 PM
Prostitution.
-- Posted by Lumpy on Thu, Feb 25, 2010, at 8:08 PM
"That (thank) goodness he kept the southern US safe from NVA attack during vietnam." ---Ike
Are you absolute sure beyond a shadow of a doubt about this statement? Where is your documentation? Oh, forget it, Ike, I was just kidding you a little bit (not about the typing mistake but about the statement).
-- Posted by voyager on Fri, Feb 26, 2010, at 3:45 PM
Menu
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/dick-cheney-makes-surpris_n_467480.html
Former Vice President Dick Cheney made an unannounced appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference on Thursday, met by a thunderous applause of a surprised and adoring crowd.
Taking the stage with his daughter Liz -- a scheduled speaker at the event -- his appearance spurred immediate shouts from the crowd, urging him to consider a presidential bid. "Cheney 2012!" yelled one man. He flashed a huge smile.
"A welcome like that is almost enough to make me want to run for office again," Cheney replied playfully.
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