Speak Out: I Don't Believe in the Death Penalty

Replies (47)

• The Constitution does not guarantee that innocent will not be put to death, only that 'due process' must occur before they do.

  We have trials by juries of our peers so that the people, not the government, decides the guilt or lack of provable guilt on the part of the accused. To make the system fair, we need fair-minded jurors, not a prohibition on just punishment.

  I think of all those who find themselves 'too busy' to stand jury duty.

  -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 8:36 AM

• Only three replies to a comment against the death penalty. I'm surprised. I thought I would get bombarded with angry comebacks. I did get three thoughtful comments.

  Perhaps the topics that aren't slamming President Obama don't engender a lot of buzz. ?

  -- Posted by donacita on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 10:47 AM

• Well, I see two things to consider in the original post.

  1. The death penalty is wrong because killing people is wrong.

  2. The death penalty is wrong because of the possibility of executing an innocent person.

  I am old enough to remember Caryl Whittier Chessman. I read his books and was for many years an opponent of capital punishment. Years later after a series of life events I became a strong proponent. I now find myself somewhat ambivalent. I personally would welcome a lethal injection as opposed to life imprisonment, so I view life imprisonment as more of a punishment than the death penalty.

  I have never really seen the death sentence or imprisonment a deterrent as no one really thinks they will get caught anyway or the emotions are so high as to over ride all reason.

  I listened to Dick Gregory this morning who is opposed to the death penalty under any circumstances and he made some really good points.

  I too expected more of a reaction to the post.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 12:19 PM

• Perhaps the topics that aren't slamming President Obama don't engender a lot of buzz. ?

  -- Posted by donacita on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 10:47 AM

  Oh, so this post was meant to be a diversionary tactic to take the heat off President B. Hussein Obama. I understand.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 1:40 PM

• It is hard to tell what is going to generate a lot of responses on these topics. I think with the debates and upcoming election in 2012, politics will be a pretty hot topic for quite a while.

  I don't bother slamming the president very much that I can remember. I dislike his policies and have come to dislike him personally, but I see no reason to spend much time on that.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 1:58 PM

• Because the death penalty subject causes such strong emotional reactions, it is too difficult to discuss the issue rationally.

  -- Posted by voyager on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 3:48 PM

• -- Posted by voyager on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 3:48 PM

  I sure hope this is the case as opposed to apathy.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 3:53 PM

• We hashed this all out on 8/22/11 in Speak Out. Since we are into redundancy, I will repost the arguments there with a smattering of other opinions.

  *******************************************************************

  Death Penalty.

  The fear of god? I thought it was the fear of death.

  // I believe in the death penalty.

  -- Posted by FunkDaddy on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 2:32 AM

  The death penalty will not prevent crimes from being committed.

  -- Posted by redpen on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 6:09 AM

  Death Penalty-

  I disagree.

  The way our current system is set up is to punish people, rather than rehabilitate them. Killing people solves nothing but petty arguments about how much it costs to keep inmates alive.

  -- Posted by LavenderKidd on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 7:56 AM

  What does God say about killing people? Where is your fear of God?

  -- Posted by grisgris on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 7:57 AM

  Gris...let's see - something about a millstone, a neck, and a deep abyss ring a bell?

  LavenderHead...You ever consider proofreading your incoherent missives?

  -- Posted by Hawker on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 8:29 AM

  To the person writing about poor congressional approval. That is THE perfect example of why we need term limits in both houses of congress!

  -- Posted by lip service on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 8:46 AM

  I'll support repeal of the death penalty when the alternative is mandatory life without parole doing hard labor (minimum 10 hrs a day/6 days a week.)

  -- Posted by DTower on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 10:18 AM

  "The death penalty will not prevent crimes from being committed."

  Hmmmm! To me it looks like one less violent criminal, to commit crimes. While it will not stop crime it certainly will slow it down some.

  One down, ??????? to go, if you're keeping score.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 10:38 AM

  If you're only going to attack grammar and spelling, then you have no real attack. Now please, let's try to stay on topic, rather than going off on tangents.

  -- Posted by LavenderKidd on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 11:20 AM

  The death penalty would not have worked out well for Joshua Kezer or many others who have been wrongly convicted.

  If anyone can come up with a system that will be able to convict only those guilty and remove discretion from the Court and jury, then I wouldn't object to the death penalty.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 11:44 AM

  Acronym- I suppose they could hide the gender and age of the defendant/s? Have a "Blind" jury/judge, so to speak? I suggest those two attributes because those are things which are often prejudiced against, i.e. people are usually more lenient on people who are particularly younger.

  -- Posted by LavenderKidd on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 11:57 AM

  I agree Acronym, it certainly should be restricted to only the most heinous crimes and those which leave no doubt of guilt. How do we get it down to this... I do not know. While even one innocent person dying for a crime they did not commit would be too many, it would seem the years and years of appeals should prevent it from happening??

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 12:00 PM

  The way our current system is set up is to punish people, rather than rehabilitate them. Killing people solves nothing but petty arguments about how much it costs to keep inmates alive.

  -- Posted by LavenderKidd on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 7:56 AM

  Our system IS set up to rehabilitate. Its not working. China had a opium problem until they hung anyone that possessed or was in the trade. It ended fast. Haven't you ever heard the term I can do a dime (ten years) standing on my head?

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 12:06 PM

  A Great Aunt once said "More men have been hung by their loose tongue than by a tight rope." Of course, the "tight rope" takes care of "loose tongues."

  -- Posted by voyager on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 12:19 PM

  I have been against the death penalty for years. Worship of state by jurors, the prosecutor, does not bode well for the innocent.

  -- Posted by BCStoned on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 12:53 PM

  I'll support repeal of the death penalty when the alternative is mandatory life without parole doing hard labor (minimum 10 hrs a day/6 days a week.

  -- Posted by DTower on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 10:18 AM

  Agree with you DTower, except I would go to 8 hrs per day/ 6 days a week and Sunday all day watching the TV preachers. Until then, give them DNA tests and right to appeals. If they are still guilty....hang them high.

  Looks like the job in Libya might be over soon. Send America's freeloaders over there to help clean up the place and don't pay them anymore unless they go.

  -- Posted by semo471 on Mon, Aug 22, 2011, at 6:10 PM

  Facebook law

  The law does not make it ILLEGAL for teachers to have students as friends on facebook. That would be a violation of the constitutional guarantees for freedom of speech and freedom to associate.

  It is most certainly not a crime.

  The law requires local school boards to make it a policy that teachers a prohibited from this activity. So much for local control of public education.

  -- Posted by one4kids on Tue, Aug 23, 2011, at 1:18 PM

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:04 PM

• -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:04 PM

  One of the good things about getting old is that at least for some of us, every day truly is a new day.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:17 PM

• One of the good things about getting old is that at least for some of us, every day truly is a new day.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:17 PM

  This is definitely true, but somewhere in a vague fog, I thought I remembered just discussing this very subject and I searched 'Death Penalty' and there it was & here we are hashing it again 1 month to the day later. ;-)

  Leastways President B. Hussein Obama gives us some new material every couple of days or so.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:29 PM

• -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:29 PM

  That he does, have a good one, out for the day.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:33 PM

• Likewise!

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 4:35 PM

• So sorry, Wheels, to bore you with a topic that has already been discussed. Actually, many thoughtful responses were posted today. I appreciate a good discussion. Unfortunately, you do not like any of my posts, and you always have to be sarcastic and bring up the President. It gets old, sir. We all know how you feel about the man. Trust me. We know. Sigh.

  -- Posted by donacita on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 7:46 PM

• Unfortunately, you do not like any of my posts, and you always have to be sarcastic and bring up the President. It gets old, sir. We all know how you feel about the man. Trust me. We know. Sigh.

  -- Posted by donacita on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 7:46 PM

  Sweetie, I did not bring up Obama.... you did! Check Posts 1 thru 4 and see if you can find a post from me before you brought him up in Post #4.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 8:18 PM

• EOS

  Not Martin van Buren. I would never beat up on another Dutchman. Only yesterday as we were having a beer, and I was discussing Presiden B. Hussein Obama with Martin... he didn't like him either. ☺ ☺ ☺ ☺

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 8:56 PM

• This argument has been tied with no success. It is not in the constitution and comes from old England when you were judged by the church. It relates to the term "separation of church and state" which is misunderstood also.

  "It refers to the right of the criminal defendant to have the jury comprised of broad category of people from any race and from different regions and origins to any gender. It means the court always seeks jury of mixed nature whereby there is no scope for bias decision and can have different heads to think in the jury."

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 9:52 PM

• I do not like the death penalty; but I do not like it when criminals pose the death penalty on their victims either. I would be more in favor of it if justice was speedy. When the appeals process can take decades the impact of the sentence is leassened.

  When a person demonstrates by his/her actions the willingness and ability to take another person's life, torture or rape another person the person who performs these despicable actions has become a menace to society.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 10:03 PM

• I think there should be public hangings IMHO. I would pull the handle myself on a guy that drags a man to his death just because he is black. Hanging stopped the opium epidemic in China.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Thu, Sep 22, 2011, at 10:23 PM

• "An argument could be made that putting an innocent person to death would be cruel and unusual punishment,..."

  It most certainly is not unusual, and we go to great lengths to make sure it is not done in a cruel manner.

  -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 8:21 AM

• Joshua Kezer was convicted of murder; Joshua Kezer was much later determined innocent. It is very difficult to enthusiastically support the death penalty when considering this has happened many times before and will happen many times in the future.

  I go back and forth on the death penalty in those cases in which guilt is a certainty.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 8:57 AM

• Recently I watched the History Channel concerning murder trials in England when they still used the death penalty. It was surprising how quickly the death sentence was carried out...something like three weeks.

  -- Posted by voyager on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 2:36 PM

• This man spent 18 years on death row in Texas and was very close to execution twice. The death penalty should be abolished. There certainly are people on death row who deserve the ultimate penalty, but there are many who don't. Prosecutors withhold evidence and the one in this case should be prosecuted himself, but the statute of limitations has passed. The death penalty should be abolished today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXPfUsVGlA&feature=related

  http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20110128-editorial-graves-ex-prosec...

  -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 2:45 PM

• "There certainly are people on death row who deserve the ultimate penalty..."

  -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 2:45 PM

  So would you object to the death penalty in these cases?

  -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 3:06 PM

• TC,

  The fact that a tool is misused does not make the tool bad. Withholding evidence, perjury, and other crimes should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And if they occur during the prosecution of a death penalty case they should have no statute of limitations and should entitle the guilty person to the same penalty as would have been suffered by the railroaded individual.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 3:09 PM

• The death penalty as a deterrent to capital crimes!.. Hows that been working for us? An "eye for an eye"!.. Well, if this were the case we would all be blind. The death penalty in simple terms is nothing but revenge as well as State sanctioned murder. It is archaic and has no place in a civilized Nation. Our Judicial system in entirely too flawed to support such punishment. JMO

  -- Posted by GREYWOLF on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 3:54 PM

• I noticed that the original post mentions the black guy executed in Georgia and no mention of the white guy executed in Texas on the same day. Is the problem that the poster has really about death, or is it something else?

  -- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 5:19 PM

• So, society should value the life of a murderer more than the murderer did of the victim's?

  -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 5:26 PM

• "There certainly are people on death row who deserve the ultimate penalty..."

  -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 2:45 PM

  So would you object to the death penalty in these cases?

  -- Posted by Acronym on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 3:06 PM

  Acronym I object to the death penalty in all cases. There is no doubt the state has executed many people who were innocent. Even eye witnesses can be mistaken or coaxed by corrupt cops and prosecutors.

  Life in prison with no possibility of parole still gives the innocent hope for exoneration.

  -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 7:51 PM

• I forgot to add the 60 Minutes videos of how an eye witness victim of the actual crime can be wrong.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-SBTRLoPuo&feature=related Part 1

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4V6aoYuDcg&NR=1 part 2

  -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 8:04 PM

• "blood thirsty" ...then go live somewhere else. and we will see how you feel if someone killes and rapes your daughter, son, mother, father, brother, sister. my GOD have you even earned the right to talk to boldly?? you are what is wrong with this country. people feeling entitled to an opinion that is NOT earned just born into citizenship..what a joke

  -- Posted by hugo on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 8:39 PM

• Trials have always been about a verdict, not about absolute truth. There is no guarantee that innocent people will not die.

  No person shall be deprived of life without due process. That is the best we can ask in an imperfect system. I find it hard to believe that the courts could find the penalty unconstitutional when the constitution specifically prescribes the prerequisite under which a person can be deprived of life.

  As I said, we need to work to ensure that our trials are fair and just, and that our jurors understand the responsibility placed upon them. Beyond that, we have to accept the outcome.

  -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 9:17 PM

• There are those in our society who have no concern for human life. There are those who rape and murder simply because they can.

  If you place them in a penitentiary with other inmates they will find a way to kill or terrorize within the penitentiary walls. If you send them to a mental hospital they will eventually be released into the general population....most often with no warning to their neighbors.

  I have seen them interviewed and publicly announcing that they have no control over their actions; that if released they will commit the same atrocities that they were convicted of. Part of the duty of the justice system is to protect the general public from those who have no conscience; to make the world safe for our children.

  The death penalty is for these cases. Work hard to hold police, prosecutors, and witnesses accountable for their actions. But do not expect perfection and do not allow sympathy for some to place our children and elderly in jeopardy of their safety.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 11:17 PM

• -- Posted by Thought Criminal on Fri, Sep 23, 2011, at 7:51 PM

  My point is not the execution of innocent people and I have repeatedly brought up the case of Joshua Kezer, I am talking about the people who actually committed murder and there is absolutely no doubt about their guilt. No feelings of guilt or remorse and certainly no indication in many cases that they would not kill again whether in prison or in the community.

  I have spoken to many murderers over the years including contract killers, some of which were executed and they described their crimes.

  stnmsn8 makes some very good points.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Sat, Sep 24, 2011, at 7:52 AM

• Read an article this morning that said there was a wide spread belief that Troy Davis was innocent.

  I believe there was that believe among some, but to say it was widespread is media hype I think.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sat, Sep 24, 2011, at 10:38 AM

• Rick**,

  One thing the death penalty does; it eliminates the repeat offender.

  I would most certainly agree that we must work hard to eliminate injustices in our society. As I was often told when I was younger, 'the wheels of justice turn very slowly but grind very fine'. It is my belief that many injustices occur because officers of the court are more interested in 'solving' highly visible crimes in order to achieve political promotion for themselves. We need policemen, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and judges who truly devote themselves to improving their professions. And news media who do not allow themselves to be carried away by their emotions and jump on the popular bandwagon. We need people in every part of society who ask why? and insist on good substantive answers.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Sep 24, 2011, at 10:56 AM

• And juries too! We need wisdom among the jury pool.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Sat, Sep 24, 2011, at 1:14 PM

• The "Criminal Justice System" is a misnomer. As pointed out by stnmsn8, it is a flawed system and probably more deeply than even he realizes.

  The goal of all involved should be meting out justice, determining who is guilty or innocent and deciding the appropriate disposition. This does not even come close to matching what actually goes on in courts across the land.

  Defense Attorneys see their duty as getting their defendant found not guilty whether or not they are in fact guilty or not. I have spoken to many Defense Attorneys who have said their is nothing more challenging nor satisfying than getting an obviously guilty person acquitted.

  Prosecuting Attorneys see their duty as getting a conviction regardless of guilt or innocence.

  Both see it as a "contest" between them to see who can "win".

  Law Enforcement want to rack up convictions to justify their budgets; look at the multiple charges in many drug sales cases.

  Judges are besieged on all sides as the community want stiff punishment unless it is their son, mother father etc. and the DOC continually beseeches them not to send any more people to prison because there is no longer room.

  Probation and Parole Officers are in many cases prohibited from issuing warrants or recommending revocation of probation/parole because they are a Division of the DOC which is over crowded.

  Yes, there are good Defense Attorneys, Prosecuting Attorneys etc., but they are all accountable to someone and must either adapt to "the system" or go elsewhere for a job.

  -- Posted by Acronym on Sat, Sep 24, 2011, at 1:49 PM

• Russia used to put the condemned person in solitary and wait a couple of months or so. One day a person would open a hole in the wall and shoot them.

  I DO think it should be and absolute conviction and not with circumstantial evidence only.

  Meth production can be stopped if they would eliminate the scum that makes and sells it.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 1:05 AM

• Meth production may be a supply and demand thing.

  Are you proposing death for anyone that makes meth?

  -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 1:23 AM

• Our natural competitive urge along with a desire for easy money have combined to severely damage our 'criminal justice system'. Shortly after the first O.J. Simpson trial I told a lawyer, "we have the best legal system money can buy." emphasis on 'buy'. He did not disagree very strenuously. There is a great deal of difference between a justice system and a legal system.

  Prosecutors, defense lawyers, and judges alike have forgotten that they are officers of the court and that their chief duty is to ensure a just settlement for those who appear before the court. For example, it is the duty of the defense attorney to see that his/her client is provided with a fair trial. It is not the duty of the defense attorney to help the guilty to avoid the consequences of his/her crime.

  To use technicalities to allow the guilty to avoid punishment is to turn the justice system into a legal system.

  -- Posted by Robert* on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 12:01 PM

• Are you proposing death for anyone that makes meth?

  -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 1:23 AM

  Whatever it takes. I can pick out a meth head in a heartbeat. Meth has ruined the lives of several of my old friends.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 6:35 PM

• Rick

  Meth heads are the hardest workers I know. The bad thing is their work involves ways to connive and steal enough for the next line or fix.

  -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Sun, Sep 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM

• What happened to Rick?

  -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 7:05 PM

• Old John,

  Didn't Rick say something a week or so back about going to the Dakotas for the Fall Hunt?

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 8:51 PM

• He must have taken his previous posts with him.

  -- Posted by Old John on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 9:19 PM

• Oh Lordy, you're right Old John. I hadn't noticed that before. Wonder who he offended? Some of these folks got some real delicate sensibilities. Maybe Rick just took his posts with him to share with the folks in North Dakota.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Sun, Oct 16, 2011, at 10:01 PM

• Old John,

  I have this thought about Rick. ;-)

  I think his hunting trip was a short one.

  -- Posted by Have_Wheels_Will_Travel on Mon, Oct 17, 2011, at 12:57 AM