Posted by CSIP2016 on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 5:33 PM:
"PHOENIX (AP) -- The accidental shooting death of a firing-range instructor by a 9-year-old girl with an Uzi has set off a powerful debate over youngsters and guns, with many people wondering what sort of parents would let a child handle a submachine gun.
Instructor Charles Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl Monday at the Last Stop range in White Hills, Arizona, about 60 miles south of Las Vegas, when she squeezed the trigger. The recoil wrenched the Uzi upward, and Vacca was shot in the head.
Investigators said they do not plan to seek charges.
Gerry Hills, founder of Arizonans for Gun Safety, a group seeking to reduce gun violence, said that it was reckless to let the girl handle such a powerful weapon and that tighter regulations regarding children and guns are needed.
"We have better safety standards for who gets to ride a roller coaster at an amusement park," Hills said. Referring to the girl's parents, Hills said: "I just don't see any reason in the world why you would allow a 9-year-old to put her hands on an Uzi."
The identities of the girl and her family have not been released.
Sam Scarmardo, who operates the outdoor range in the desert, said Wednesday that the parents had signed waivers saying they understood the rules and were standing nearby, video-recording their daughter, when the accident happened.
Investigators released 27 seconds of the footage showing the girl from behind as she fires at a black-silhouette target. The footage, which does not show the instructor actually being shot, helped feed the furor on social media and beyond.
"I have regret we let this child shoot, and I have regret that Charlie was killed in the incident," Scarmardo said. He said he doesn't know what went wrong, pointing out that Vacca was an Army veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan.
In 2008, an 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head with an Uzi at a gun expo near Springfield, Massachusetts. Christopher Bizilj was firing at pumpkins when the gun kicked back. A former Massachusetts police chief whose company co-sponsored the gun show was later acquitted of involuntary manslaughter.
Two gun experts said Wednesday that what types of firearms a child can handle depend largely on the strength and experience of the child -- though the notion of giving a 9-year-old a fully automatic Uzi made some queasy.
"So much of it depends on the maturity of the child and the experience of the range officer," said Joe Waldron, a shooting instructor and legislative director of the Washington State Rifle and Pistol Association.
Dave Workman, senior editor at thegunmag.com and a spokesman for the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said it can be safe to let children shoot an automatic weapon if a properly trained adult is helping them hold it.
After viewing the video of the Arizona shooting, Workman said Vacca appeared to have tried to help the girl maintain control by placing his left hand under the weapon. But automatic weapons tend to recoil upward, he noted.
"If it was the first time she'd ever handled a full-auto firearm, it's a big surprise when that gun continues to go off," said Workman, a firearms instructor for 30 years. "I've even seen adults stunned by it."
Lindsey Zwicker of the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence said that after the 2008 tragedy in Massachusetts, Connecticut adopted a law banning anyone under 16 from handling machine guns at shooting ranges.
"This is an action states can do to prevent something like this from happening again," she said.
Scarmardo said his policy of allowing children 8 and older to fire guns under adult supervision and the watchful eye of an instructor is standard practice in the industry. The range's policies are under review, he said.
Arizona has long had a strong pro-gun culture, including weapon ranges that promote events for children and families. Some of these ranges offer people the thrill of firing weapons such as the Israeli-made Uzi that are heavily restricted and difficult for members of the public to obtain.
The Scottsdale Gun Club in recent years has allowed children and families to pose with Santa Claus while holding machine guns and other weapons from the club. Children as young as 10 are allowed to hunt big game such as elk and deer in Arizona, provided they have completed a hunter safety course.
Scarmardo, who has been operating the gun range for more than a year and has run another for 14 years, said he hasn't had a safety problem before at his ranges.
"We never even issued a Band-Aid," Scarmardo said."
My first thoughts 'what the heck'? Freak accident my behind.
Are uzis legal? If yes, why are uzis legal?
Why would a parent take a 9 year old to a shooting range?
Why would a parent allow a 9 year old to shoot a gun, let alone a machine gun?
Why would a shooting range allow children to shoot guns? Uzis?
-- Posted by CSIP2016 on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 5:39 PM
Exactly! I brought this up on another thread. So much negligence here! That little girl is traumatized for life, and the Instructor paid with his life!
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 5:59 PM
I'll have to agree nine is a little young for a girl to learn that type weapon. She should be between air pistols and 22's.
A lot of us were trusted fully with a 22 rifle at age ten or eleven but even if Dad had a gun like that he wouldn't have let me use it on squirrels.
I think Mo law prohibits children that young shooting at gun ranges.
But when it all said a law may have prevented it but free market will likely change the rules faster than legislation.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 6:34 PM
Phobia must be your word of the day! I replied to you on the other thread. We do all have phobias, but you have mine skewed.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 6:56 PM
My brothers and sisters and I were shooting at age 6, as were many of the kids we grew up with. Never thought of it as a big deal. It's just what we did.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:17 PM
FFF, a flintlock is not the same as an Uzi.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:20 PM
Well Freedom, did you shoot an UZI? Did you kill your instructor? Of course not! That is irresponsible all the way around.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:20 PM
Not a gun issue here - a stupidity issue. If not an Uzi, these parents would have wanted a picture with a rattlesnake or an alligator. Or climbing a cell phone tower. You can fix stupid and you can make it illegal either.
-- Posted by ParkerDaws on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:56 PM
Parker, if you can fix stupid you can make a fortune. I think you meant to say 'can't'.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:17 PM
Well Freedom, did you shoot an UZI? Did you kill your instructor? -- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:20 PM
Well Reasoning, why is this any business of yours? Why do you feel you should impose your beliefs on guns/laws on everyone else? WHy can't you just refuse to buy one and live with that?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:19 PM
FFF, a flintlock is not the same as an Uzi.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:20 PM
Well Freedom, did you shoot an UZI? Did you kill your instructor? Of course not! That is irresponsible all the way around.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 7:20 PM
The questions were asked,
Why would a parent take a 9 year old to a shooting range?
Why would a parent allow a 9 year old to shoot a gun, let alone a machine gun?
My response to the questions was, in a nutshell, because it's no big deal that 9 year olds or even younger, shoot guns. Uzis had nothing to do with my response.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:19 PM
-- Posted by RELee on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:24 PM
Did someone say it wasn't stupid to give a kid an Uzi? I feel it was as stupid as giving the government an Uzi.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:33 PM
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:49 PM
How young are the Muslim children pledged to kill a Jew taught to handle machine guns?
Ok, I know that might be off subject and I may be in trouble for saying it. So be it.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 9:15 PM
-- Posted by Dug on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 8:19 PM
Dug, Obviously the 9 years parents were not doing their job well; so it is the responsibility of society to step up to the plate.
This example and the Kelly HS killing is exactly why many are concerned and yelling for gun owners' to be held responsible, because owners are not using common sense to protect minors.
-- Posted by notrump on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 4:34 AM
-- Posted by RELee on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 9:50 PM
If your friend or foe is jumping off the Bill Emerson Bridge, would that make it okay-- safe and a good idea-- for you or your kids to do the same?
Of course not.
-- Posted by notrump on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 4:36 AM
Parents wanted their daughter to go to school and brag about shooting a machine gun. My gun is bigger than your gun, my car goes faster than your car, etc.
-- Posted by Dexterite1 on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 5:30 AM
The Muslims think it's ok to train a child to use an automatic weapon. Ask them if they think it's stupid.
-- Posted by RELee on Wed, Aug 27, 2014, at 9:50 PM
Uh, ask the instructor if he think's its ok to train a child to use a UZI. Oh yeah. Hindsight.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 5:51 AM
The instructor died because he didn't follow good practice apparently. He paid the price.
-- Posted by ssnkemp on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 5:53 AM
"Sam Scarmardo, who operates the outdoor range in the desert, said Wednesday that the parents had signed waivers saying they understood the rules and were standing nearby, video-recording their daughter, when the accident happened."
These parent should be investigated. I wonder if they knew their daughter 'might' kill someone, or be killed like the little 8 year old boy a few years ago. Stupid!
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 6:03 AM
"...Muslims think it's ok to train a child to use an automatic weapon."
That seems to equate Arizona gun fanatics with Muslim terrorists...
Maybe that's not what you meant.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 7:09 AM
Why are you afraid of Muslims, RE?
Why when discussing a horrible, preventable accident did you try to divert attention to something unrelated?
Why do you try to pretend that someone who thinks differently than you is mentally ill?
You are correct in one thing. Only God knows what your real problem is.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 12:03 PM
so it is the responsibility of society to step up to the plate -- Posted by Gyatso on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 4:34 AM
I disagree Gyatso. People make mistakes and screw up and there are laws/lawsuits to handle such things. Society can't and never should try to "step up" to every mistake made. 300,000,000 people in this country and one set of parents makes a mistake and now we need new laws and restrictions on the rest of the country.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 12:18 PM
Posted by Gyatso on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 4:36 AM
What the heck does that have to do with anything? Or is that a defense of Muslims? -- Posted by RELee on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 11:45 AM
That is precisely my point. Your comparison has nothing to do with the child shooting an uzi.
Just because a Muslim belief causes some extremist to teach a child how to use a machine gun or become a suicide bomber... does not mean a sound-minded American couple should allow a child to shoot a machine gun while they recorded (and watch her kill an innocent by-stander).
-- Posted by notrump on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 2:33 PM
Just because a Muslim belief causes some extremist to teach a child how to use a machine gun or become a suicide bomber... does not mean a sound-minded American couple should allow a child to shoot a machine gun while they recorded (and watch her kill an innocent by-stander).
-- Posted by Gyatso on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 2:33 PM
I do not believe anybody believes what these parents did was sound minded... teaching the child how to handle a firearm at that age and safe handling practices is to be commended but the choice of the firearm to shoot was in a word, stupid.
So far as killing an innocent by-stander... that did not happen. The man killed was an instructor and as such he should have known better than have a child shoot that kind of weapon and he also should have taken the necessary precautions to see that it did not get away from her if he did intend letting her shoot it.
All of the sanctimonious outrage exhibited by a couple of people on here is just silly talk to try and convince more people that firearms should be outlawed.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 2:57 PM
Wheels, let's say that these few SO folks who hate guns get their wish, and all handguns are banned from the general public. You think they will stop there?...A true freedom loving, conservative knows the answer to that.
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 3:15 PM
Wheels, let's say that these few SO folks who hate guns get their wish, and all handguns are banned from the general public. You think they will stop there?...A true freedom loving, conservative knows the answer to that.
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 3:15 PM
BonScott,
It is one baby step at a time that they do to ease the pain as they remove your freedoms from you step by step. If you were to list all of the freedoms that have been removed from us over just the past 50 years.... and then think of the outrage that would have been exhibited had the government announced that everything on that list would be removed starting January 1, 1965. It could not have been done in one step. Water eill wear a hole in granite if it drips on it long enough.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 3:49 PM
"Water eill" More fat fingering.... make that 'water will'.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 3:51 PM
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 3:49 PM
Spot on!!....Now let's wait for the first so called "liberal" to say, "what freedoms have you lost?"
-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 4:19 PM
And why do you care what someone's username was before? It is an anonymous forum. By the way, I change my username every month and see that many others do also. Deal with it busy body.
-- Posted by Otoe on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 6:34 PM
Go take your medication before you pop off like a bottle rocket. Deal with it son.
-- Posted by Otoe on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 6:48 PM
Leave those poor kids alone -- they have been thru hell and back without having arm chair shrinks explain what happen to them .
-- Posted by ✴Rick on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 5:45 PM
The little girl isn't reading this! This is to make sure the same stupid thing doesn't happen here where guns are like chocolate.
I wonder , do the anti-gun folks think the death penalty and abortions are okay ?
-- Posted by ✴Rick on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 5:59 PM
Nope.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 8:18 PM
Just posting this as a public service, these women are desperate.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, Aug 28, 2014, at 9:13 PM
Where did I say all Muslims are good? Please post that.
News! Not all "Christians" are good either. Not all speak out posters are good, and not all people are good.
As the evening wears on you become less and less comprehensible and your comprehension definitely deteriorates. Lets examine what is causing that.
By the way, I asked you several questions which you are avoiding. Why?
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 5:57 AM
I read she is being protected from media and media sources :) And, I agree THIS was a good choice by her parents.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 6:20 AM
I agree Rick, that is one reason this is a tragedy. A tragedy that could have been prevented.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 11:18 AM
I agree Rick, that is one reason this is a tragedy. A tragedy that could have been prevented.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 11:18 AM
Reasoning,
Not disagreeing on the fact that this could have been prevented.
I would be interested in your take on how it could have been prevented.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 12:17 PM
Sometimes stupidity kills.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 3:39 PM
Sometimes stupidity kills.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at
3:39 PM
Ike,
I cannot help it... the devil made me ask, if stupidity kills, what has kept you alive so long?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 4:27 PM
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 4:27 PM
You just gave me a good chuckle wheels...:-)
-- Posted by BonScott on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 4:40 PM
BonScott,
Read the last few posts in Justice the Obama/Holder Style if you think that post is funny.... they might bring a tear to your eye. Ike proves most every time he posts that you cannot fix stupid.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 4:48 PM
Author of Gun Book for Kids: Liberal Scorn Made It a Hit
Friday, 29 Aug 2014 08:37 PM
By Bill Hoffmann
The co-author of a children's book promoting the right to bear arms says he is ecstatic that liberal talk show hosts have blasted his book -- because they've made it a runaway bestseller.
"I've sent a thank-you card to Stephen Colbert," Brian Jeffs told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV. "These people are making fun of it, and they haven't even read it. But they've launched it into the mainstream.
"My Parents Open Carry -- An Open Carry Adventure" was originally published in 2012 to little fanfare.
But authors Jeffs and Nathan Nephew -- founders of Michigan Open Carry -- have seen a sharp increase in sales since being mocked by comedians Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert.
It has risen to the top of Amazon's Children's Government Books.
"It's not reaching children to open carry, but it's a starting point to discuss" the issue, Jeffs said.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 8:20 PM
Sometimes stupidity kills.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at
3:39 PM
Ike,
I cannot help it... the devil made me ask, if stupidity kills, what has kept you alive so long?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 4:27 PM
I said "sometimes."
Now who is the stupid one?
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 10:08 AM
There are no stupid posters .
Sorry...
-- Posted by ✴Rick on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 10:12 AM
Better tell Wheels
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 2:37 PM
Now who is the stupid one? -- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 10:08 AM
You tell us... is it
a) Jay
b) Ike
c) Spanaird
d) Spagnoli
e) all of the above?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 4:01 PM
Ike
Even if it is only sometimes, by the law of averages it should have caught up with you by now.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 4:25 PM
Dug is still looking under his bed for some poster named Jay.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 5:24 PM
Ike
Even if it is only sometimes, by the law of averages it should have caught up with you by now.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 4:25 PM
Then how did you make it this far? Derp.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 5:26 PM
Sorry , posters mean everyone .
-- Posted by ✴Rick on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 2:58 PM
As I said, better tell Wheels. But you won't. Rick likes the approval.
-- Posted by L'Espagnol on Sat, Aug 30, 2014, at 5:27 PM
Someone needs to take your own advice.
-- Posted by CSIP2016 on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 8:24 AM
What does any of your comments have to do about the 9 year old who killed an adult at a gun range while her parents filmed?
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 12:24 PM
To try and show there are other types of tragedy besides guns .
Or , trying to keep an open mind .
-- Posted by ✴Rick on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 12:50 PM
Maybe showing there were other parenting fails?
Regardless, this mother (I am using that term loosely) will never have the right to raise that child. Thankfully, it sounds as if the baby will be ok.
Unfortunately, the gun instructor and the 9 year old will never be 'ok'. And these parents will continue to 'parent' (I use this term loosely) this child.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:00 PM
Reasoning - is it "stupid" for parents to allow their 12 year olds to ride in the back of a pickup truck?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:13 PM
Obsolutely. It is also stupid for a parent to allow a child to ride in a car unsecured. Both are against the law in most states.
Unfortunately, it appears it is not against the law for parents to allowed and filmed a 9 year old killing with an uzi. That needs to change.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:20 PM
Thank you osculate, for your voice of reason!
-- Posted by Reasoning on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:23 PM
All those stupid parents were wrong and the two of you were right for decades and decades?
Sounds like a perfect example of hubris to me.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:49 PM
Doug, Are you debating the 9 year olds parents were in the right? Or are you deflecting because you are wrong? Nice $5 word.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:58 PM
Osculate be the tired old "re-tired"
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:07 PM
Is that all you have to add to the discussion?
Must be a very sad life. You have so much time on your hands that you track poster usernames. Get a life boy.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:11 PM
Get a life boy.
-- Posted by osculate on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:11 PM
No 1 Me'L, I'm not your boy and No 2 I think it's funny that people wear out a name with their ignorance and have to continuously change it. Just a curiosity and it isn't hard or time consuming to do.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:18 PM
I agree Rick, that is one reason this is a tragedy. A tragedy that could have been prevented.
-- Posted by Reasoning on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 11:18 AM
Reasoning,
Not disagreeing on the fact that this could have been prevented.
I would be interested in your take on how it could have been prevented.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, Aug 29, 2014, at 12:17 PM
Reasoning,
If we are to continue to beat this subject to death, surely you could tell me what your plan would be to stop this kind of stupidity
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:21 PM
Not Me'L.
You are nothing but a spoiled boy with too much time on your hands. Get over yourself.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:22 PM
I have been around long enough to know you think every poster is a sock puppet.
Interesting how several agree with everything I post under one name (red). But chastise under another name (mic).
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:27 PM
You are nothing but a spoiled boy with too much time on your hands. Get over yourself.
-- Posted by osculate on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:22 PM
Statement proves what little you know about me. But you go ahead and speculate all you want. No need of getting your panties in a twist just because I set the record straight.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:33 PM
For the record, I could careless about your life. You boy seem to care a little too much in other posters' lives. And for the record, I wear BVDs.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:42 PM
Feel better? I changed my name back. Maybe your tone will do a 180 again.
-- Posted by survivalist on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 3:46 PM
Make your name whatever you want it to be. But when you act like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum I will consider what you have to say accordingly.
I was merely pointing out the name change and it seemed to really yank your crank.
Son, go have a beer, relax and get on with life, you're going to create yourself an ulcer.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 4:02 PM
Nice $5 word. -- Posted by red rhino on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 2:58 PM
It's actually a 50 cent word to most - but that confirms how you missed my simple point - this country is being regulated to death by people like yourself who think every mistake by a parent must have a law passed to prevent the rest of the country from doing it.
I would hate to live in a world of incompetence and fear as a liberal like yourself. Does it feel good that Uncle Sam tucks you in at night? Or that your kids have to be buckled in?
Not me. I rode in the back of the truck from a toddler and all through life. Paved state roads and all. And I've hauled my kids around in the back on occasion. And it just kills you that you can't stop me with laws doesn't it?
Try focusing on yourself for a change. It might help your anger issues.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 4:08 PM
Just for the record, while I find the topic interesting, I am not posting.
-- Posted by Red_Rhino on Sun, Aug 31, 2014, at 5:38 PM
Menu
"PHOENIX (AP) -- The accidental shooting death of a firing-range instructor by a 9-year-old girl with an Uzi has set off a powerful debate over youngsters and guns, with many people wondering what sort of parents would let a child handle a submachine gun.
Instructor Charles Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl Monday at the Last Stop range in White Hills, Arizona, about 60 miles south of Las Vegas, when she squeezed the trigger. The recoil wrenched the Uzi upward, and Vacca was shot in the head.
Investigators said they do not plan to seek charges.
Gerry Hills, founder of Arizonans for Gun Safety, a group seeking to reduce gun violence, said that it was reckless to let the girl handle such a powerful weapon and that tighter regulations regarding children and guns are needed.
"We have better safety standards for who gets to ride a roller coaster at an amusement park," Hills said. Referring to the girl's parents, Hills said: "I just don't see any reason in the world why you would allow a 9-year-old to put her hands on an Uzi."
The identities of the girl and her family have not been released.
Sam Scarmardo, who operates the outdoor range in the desert, said Wednesday that the parents had signed waivers saying they understood the rules and were standing nearby, video-recording their daughter, when the accident happened.
Investigators released 27 seconds of the footage showing the girl from behind as she fires at a black-silhouette target. The footage, which does not show the instructor actually being shot, helped feed the furor on social media and beyond.
"I have regret we let this child shoot, and I have regret that Charlie was killed in the incident," Scarmardo said. He said he doesn't know what went wrong, pointing out that Vacca was an Army veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan.
In 2008, an 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head with an Uzi at a gun expo near Springfield, Massachusetts. Christopher Bizilj was firing at pumpkins when the gun kicked back. A former Massachusetts police chief whose company co-sponsored the gun show was later acquitted of involuntary manslaughter.
Two gun experts said Wednesday that what types of firearms a child can handle depend largely on the strength and experience of the child -- though the notion of giving a 9-year-old a fully automatic Uzi made some queasy.
"So much of it depends on the maturity of the child and the experience of the range officer," said Joe Waldron, a shooting instructor and legislative director of the Washington State Rifle and Pistol Association.
Dave Workman, senior editor at thegunmag.com and a spokesman for the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said it can be safe to let children shoot an automatic weapon if a properly trained adult is helping them hold it.
After viewing the video of the Arizona shooting, Workman said Vacca appeared to have tried to help the girl maintain control by placing his left hand under the weapon. But automatic weapons tend to recoil upward, he noted.
"If it was the first time she'd ever handled a full-auto firearm, it's a big surprise when that gun continues to go off," said Workman, a firearms instructor for 30 years. "I've even seen adults stunned by it."
Lindsey Zwicker of the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence said that after the 2008 tragedy in Massachusetts, Connecticut adopted a law banning anyone under 16 from handling machine guns at shooting ranges.
"This is an action states can do to prevent something like this from happening again," she said.
Scarmardo said his policy of allowing children 8 and older to fire guns under adult supervision and the watchful eye of an instructor is standard practice in the industry. The range's policies are under review, he said.
Arizona has long had a strong pro-gun culture, including weapon ranges that promote events for children and families. Some of these ranges offer people the thrill of firing weapons such as the Israeli-made Uzi that are heavily restricted and difficult for members of the public to obtain.
The Scottsdale Gun Club in recent years has allowed children and families to pose with Santa Claus while holding machine guns and other weapons from the club. Children as young as 10 are allowed to hunt big game such as elk and deer in Arizona, provided they have completed a hunter safety course.
Scarmardo, who has been operating the gun range for more than a year and has run another for 14 years, said he hasn't had a safety problem before at his ranges.
"We never even issued a Band-Aid," Scarmardo said."
http://news.msn.com/us/shooting-by-9-year-old-girl-stirs-debate-over-guns
Replies (69)